Big WCC game: Gonzaga @ St. Mary's

[arfboy]

Great game. I hope the selection committee was watching that one. It showed very well for both teams. Gonzaga nearly won, on the road, w/Heytvelt as a virtual no-show. St. Mary's won while looking awful defending a simple pick & roll and while almost blowing the game by becoming too conservative down the stretch. But those negatives don't take away the fact that both teams made many big plays as well and neither team let the other get far out in front of the other.

Both teams are very capable of winning a few games in the NCAA Tournament...Gonzaga is so used to playing games like this and has a lot of options. And St. Mary's has excellent depth, was very impressed w/some of the guys coming off the bench.

[gotigers]

Originally Posted by arfboy

Great game. I hope the selection committee was watching that one. It showed very well for both teams. Gonzaga nearly won, on the road, w/Heytvelt as a virtual no-show. St. Mary's won while looking awful defending a simple pick & roll and while almost blowing the game by becoming too conservative down the stretch. But those negatives don't take away the fact that both teams made many big plays as well and neither team let the other get far out in front of the other.

Both teams are very capable of winning a few games in the NCAA Tournament...Gonzaga is so used to playing games like this and has a lot of options. And St. Mary's has excellent depth, was very impressed w/some of the guys coming off the bench.

I wasn't that impressed with either to be frank. I think they are both NCAA calibur teams, but I would be very surprised to see either in the second weekend. Like you said, St. Mary's looked pathetic against the pick and roll, and Gonzaga had almost no inside presence on the defensive glass or posting up.

[arfboy]

I guess what I take out of it, though, is both teams made big plays when needed. That's what you need in the NCAA Tournament, guys who can make a difference down the stretch because a lot of the games are close. Golden was incredible shooting the 3. Mills, while terrible from the outside and occasionally out of control, came up w/big plays at big times. Tron Smith scored some buckets off the bench...I liked the flashes from some of St. Mary's bench guys. They look like guys that might not get you 10-12 pts every game, but can step up if someone else isn't contributing as much. They do need to become a better rebounding team, though.

And for Gonzaga...Heytvelt did nothing. They better hope his injury is still a problem, because otherwise he looked passive and not in the game at all. Downs also did very little. But I think everyone knows that they're both very capable. Pargo, Daye & Kuso made big plays, I thought they were strong on the offensive glass, and if not for foul trouble they probably win this one. Though it's hard to have much sympathy for the Zags getting some calls against them considering it has seemed in a lot of WCC games in recent yrs that they get the benefit of some calls.

[rjaymoose]

Good game but the refs clearly missed a travel by the Zags bench late in OT. No one touched Golden, who jumped up to throw the ball off of someone, only to land before releasing the ball. The official closest to the play calls a foul. Amazing.

But, where was Heytvelt? I know he played, but he did nothing. Maybe they would have been better off with just Sacre and Kuso last night.

[rc841]

Originally Posted by gotigers

I wasn't that impressed with either to be frank. I think they are both NCAA calibur teams, but I would be very surprised to see either in the second weekend. Like you said, St. Mary's looked pathetic against the pick and roll, and Gonzaga had almost no inside presence on the defensive glass or posting up.

As a Zag fan and at the risk of sounding like a Homer - three bad calls in overtime likely cost them that game. On the other hand, however, I cannot really say that St. Mary's was not just as deserving of the win as the Zags. Honestly, i thought SMC outplayed GU a bit in regulation but superPargo put them on his back and brought them back. Still, it is one thing to not see who a ball deflected off of going out of bounds (which happened twice) but quite another to call brutally bad fouls (Daye's 5th - clearly should have been called on SMU's big guy) and Gray on the sideline scramble when Golden clearly jumped into him (probably a good no call and GU ball).

On another note, I don't think SMC can beat GU in Spokane and I believe that, in the long run, GU definitely has more pieces & talent and will emerge as the clearly better team. Heytvelt is an enigma - if he decides to play, then I disagree with a previous poster who said neither team has a chance to get to the second weekend.

[rc841]

Originally Posted by rjaymoose

Good game but the refs clearly missed a travel by the Zags bench late in OT. No one touched Golden, who jumped up to throw the ball off of someone, only to land before releasing the ball. The official closest to the play calls a foul. Amazing.

But, where was Heytvelt? I know he played, but he did nothing. Maybe they would have been better off with just Sacre and Kuso last night.

Yeah, I thought about why few even put Heytvelt in instead of Sacre in OT as Heytvelt killed them by giving up two pathetic offensive rebounds and taking a couple of bad shots. My supposition is that Few felt he had to play him or risk completely destroying Heytvelt for the season. While I feel GU might have Sweet 16 or even Elite Eight possibilities with Heytvelt playing at 100% they certainly won't otherwise - so sometimes you need to make playing decisions based on the long-term, I guess. probably cost us the game in OT last night, however because I think Sacre gets those rebounds.

[jtom2141]

The sky is the limit for Austin Daye. Seriously. If he stays next year he should be a top 5 pick in '09. He has the same type of game as Durant but without the overall polish. I've seen him a few times and didnt feel like he played enough to really get a grasp on what he could do, but last night he got the minutes and I was floored by his game. He could be a real difference-maker in March.

I'm interested to see what people think about Gonzaga this year. Doesn't it seem like with all the high profile recruits and young studs they play that they have sacrificed the chemistry that made them so great over the past decade. I mean St. Mary's looked more like "Gonzaga" than Gonzaga does. Shooters, tough inside players, steady guard play, low turnovers. That's what Gonzaga was back when they were winning with guys you had never heard of and guys you would never hear from again. Now they have these All-American freshmen and sophomores and it seems like they don't play with the same toughness and grit that made them such an incredible program, and with the exception of Morrison's last year, it has hurt them in the postseason. I mean, if you can get All-Americans to come to your school it's not like you can turn them down, but it certainly seems like a different dynamic the past couple years.

[umass99]

Originally Posted by rc841

As a Zag fan and at the risk of sounding like a Homer - three bad calls in overtime likely cost them that game.

As a neutral observer those were 3 clearly missed calls, and they certainly didn't help the Zags.

[gotigers]

Originally Posted by umass99

As a neutral observer those were 3 clearly missed calls, and they certainly didn't help the Zags.

Yep, home cooking for sure, especially the foul sending Golden to the line. At least he missed one of the shots, but...

[arfboy]

Originally Posted by jtom2141

I'm interested to see what people think about Gonzaga this year. Doesn't it seem like with all the high profile recruits and young studs they play that they have sacrificed the chemistry that made them so great over the past decade. I mean St. Mary's looked more like "Gonzaga" than Gonzaga does. Shooters, tough inside players, steady guard play, low turnovers. That's what Gonzaga was back when they were winning with guys you had never heard of and guys you would never hear from again. Now they have these All-American freshmen and sophomores and it seems like they don't play with the same toughness and grit that made them such an incredible program, and with the exception of Morrison's last year, it has hurt them in the postseason. I mean, if you can get All-Americans to come to your school it's not like you can turn them down, but it certainly seems like a different dynamic the past couple years.

Great point. I've thought the same thing myself and was thinking about it again last night, how they've lost a lot of their charm for me. It's hard to describe, but I think it's about the type of players they bring in and the way they play now.

Seems like as they've brought in better athletes they also have a bit more...attitude. Not much flex offense anymore (which they used to use extensively), not as many guys who seem to be getting the most out of their talent or are consistent. They are a very tough team in that they're tested and used to playing good teams, and they have better talent than a lot of so-called 'major' teams. And GU fans may have a completely different take on this...but from here, they don't seem to have the same chemistry, not as much team concept and they're just not as much fun to watch for me as a neutral observer. I loved watching guys like Santangelo, Frahm, Stepp, Dickau, Casey Calvary, loved their games and loved how their team played in general. I really don't get that same enjoyment watching many of their players now...a guy like Pargo or Daye, they're excellent athletes. But it feels more like watching just any other team w/top notch talent...talented individually, but wondering if they can't be better if they weren't more unselfish and driven.