UNC-Duke: The Rivalry Continues
March 5th, 2009
by Kevin McNeill
Bleeding Tyler
On Sunday, two arch-rivals will play each other in their final regular season game. Both teams will be ranked in the Top 10, with nothing less than a possible #1 seed in the NCAA Tournament at stake. It promises not only to be a great game, but also to boast the single highest television ratings of the college basketball season.
Just another day in the UNC-Duke rivalry.
Year in and year out, message boards and talking heads debate endlessly over which rivalry in college sports tops them all. Every year, the Tar Heels and Blue Devils seemingly put an end to that debate, if only for a moment.
What makes it such a great rivalry? To start, you have two of the winningest programs in history. Only Kentucky (1,966 wins) has more victories than North Carolina (1,950), while Duke is right there with the fourth most victories ever (1,846), behind Kansas (1,943). The two programs have a combined 31 Final Fours and 7 national titles, behind only UCLA. Both current coaches are in the Hall of Fame, and each program has consistently produced great NBA players - some of the greatest in basketball history. There are thrilling, nail-biting games between the two that seems to happen every year. But there's one other reason that this rivalry towers above all others.
These guys really hate each other.
Who could forget Coach Dean Smith, responding to Cameron Crazies holding up signs proclaiming "J.R. can't Reid", by announcing the less-than stellar SAT scores of a couple of Duke players - something that was not thought to be public information.
My personal favorite moment came in 1984, when Coach Smith tried to sound the horn himself after not being allowed to make a substitution by the refs. Only he pushed the wrong button, giving North Carolina an extra twenty points on the scoreboard. Smith never received a technical for his new scoring strategy, and UNC went on to win - which led Coach K to make his infamous "double standard" remark after the game.
Over the years, Duke and Carolina fans would go at each other over everything from beer ads, the cleverness (or lack thereof) of the Cameron Crazies, Sam Cassell's "wine and cheese crowd" comment, academics, partying and everything in between.
And then there are the games themselves.
In 1974 North Carolina stunningly came back from eight points down with 17 seconds on the clock and eventually won the game in overtime, widely considered the greatest comeback in history. There were the classic battles of 1984, Michael Jordan's last season in Chapel Hill, where UNC won in double overtime at the end of the regular season to go undefeated in ACC play, only to be toppled by Duke in thrilling fashion in the ACC Tournament a week later.
There was the ultimate "throw-out-the-record books" game in 1995, when a Coach K-less Duke team (who was out due to back surgery) that was 0-7 in the ACC took the second-ranked Tar Heels to double-overtime in a 102-100 thriller. Ten years later, the two would split their regular season games by a combined three points, with both contests decided on the last play of the game.
There was a bloody Eric Montross carrying his team to victory in 1992. An even bloodier Tyler Hansbrough needing to be held back from charging Gerald Henderson two years ago, after Henderson broke his nose with less than 15 seconds on the clock and the Tar Heels up by double digits. The list goes on.
So, if history is any indication, Sunday's matchup will be yet another chapter in that storied rivalry.
Amazingly, as great as this rivalry is, the two schools have never once met in the NCAA Tournament. In fact, they haven't played each other in the ACC tourney since 2003, a game won by the Blue Devils 75-63. Just as a college basketball fan, here's hoping both of those streaks end this year.
Comments
that would be the stupid
Submitted by Shawn Siegel on Thu, 2009-03-05 15:12.
that would be the stupid editor's fault and not kevin's.. sorry about, fixed.
Duke and UNC in tourny
Submitted by M_Napp on Thu, 2009-03-05 15:29.
They would have met in the 1991 finals if UNC could have gotten past Kansas in the Final Four. Roy Williams beat Dean Smith (he even got ejected if I remember right) and Duke beat Kansas in the finals.
As Kevin said, as a fan, it
Submitted by Shawn Siegel on Thu, 2009-03-05 15:46.
As Kevin said, as a fan, it would be great for college hoops if they could somehow meet up in the Final Four this year.. would instantly be one of the most anticipated tourney games in years.
Having been to plenty of these...
Submitted by Alex Mazzoli on Thu, 2009-03-05 18:33.
...games, and I have to say that the one this Sunday is going to be one of the greatest moments in the Dean Dome since it's been open as the reigning National Player of the Year will be playing his last game on that floor, along with Danny Green, Bobby Frasor and Mike Copeland.
Personally, while I think that for the college world it would be great that these programs met in the big dance, overall I believe it would lessen the rivalry because all would think about the NCAA game first, and a rivalry is great because it's about the schools, the fan base, the eight miles that divides them, and not where they play.
As far as the "hate" comment, I know that it's true as far as the fan base, as for the players, not as much, as they play ball in the summer together. And a lot of them have played with one another before college, so while the rivalry exists, and there plenty of bad blood, it's a lot more with the fan base than with the teams.
“If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot.” - Dean Smith
"The name on the front of your jersey is a lot more important than the name on the back." -Roy Williams
Tarholes Fantasy
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 08:55.
It goes without saying that Deano's actions were always unethical and bordered on jealous immaturity. Coach K is the far superior coach, hands down. Even Roy "Dadgummit, gosh darn it" Williams will agree to that!
P.S. Crapolina better enjoy this season cause it's about over!
Go DUKE!!!
You think its over after
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 10:43.
You think its over after this season for Carolina?? Oh boy, you have far from seen our recruting class' coming in..you just wait. Duke has nobody anyway. Coach K aka "Ratface" has lost his coaching edge, nobody wants to go to Duke anymore.
You cannot spell... It's
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 12:01.
You cannot spell...
It's spelled dook...
As in dook-ball...
Game is played on the court -- too bad about the last 4 years
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 16:56.
Yeah, and Coach Krizewski is absolutely the finest gentleman in basketball, a coach who always respects everyone and who is never found whining to referees. Yes, we all wish we were as lucky as Duke. Sure makes me sad that none of Duke's seniors ever beat Carolina at Duke and sure makes me sad about all the time spent in tents for those lucky students who also never saw Duke beat UNC at Duke...
Yeah, I went to Duke, hated it, and graduated from UNC, the BEST public university in America. Duke sure has a pretty campus. Maybe it will help recruiting in a few years...
But Carolina did flush the
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 2009-03-11 07:51.
But Carolina did flush the Dookie out of the DEAN DOME..... AGAIN......
It's over...
Submitted by Alex Mazzoli on Fri, 2009-03-06 09:22.
...oh well then us from Chapel Hill best just pack it in. Gee, must be that huge class coming in next year that is going to scare us all? If Duke has gotten anywhere in this rivalry they can thank the years between Smith and Williams.
Coach K the far superior coach? Who has gotten to 500 wins faster than any other coach, not him, it is Roy Williams. Who has won the most games in his first 200 ACC matches, right again, RW. If it wasn't for the fact that Duke plays 8 v 5 (you know, the refs) they would be a mid pack team.
I mean have you seen the YouTube videos of Duke players walking in the last couple of games? Heck, once they don't make it into the NBA they can all get a job as a "travel" agent somewhere. Anytime you have anything more than "mispelled words" to make your points (aka facts) come back and see me.
“If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot.” - Dean Smith
"The name on the front of your jersey is a lot more important than the name on the back." -Roy Williams
The Fact that you people
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 10:18.
The Fact that you people always cry about the referees is what the most embarassing thing about you is. Carolina outshoots its opponents in free throws by far, as well as fouls called against their opponents. Its amazing that a Carolina fan would actual complain about Duke and the offcials. Rediculous. The problem with carolina fans like you is that you have no basis or reality. You take some snippet from some anti Duke site and make it into truth. You love to cry about flopping, but in reality Tyler Hansborough is one of the biggest floppers going. Have some sense man. You guys outshot Duke by 17 on the free throw line and you are talking about calls? You are a true loser that doesnt deserve to be a fan of a team in this rivalry. Only cowards come up with conspiracies instead of appreciating good play. I hate Carolina, mostly because of losers like you. But I think they have one heck of a good team, and I dont need to come up with a conspiracy to cheat them of their success. Go back to your cave Geek.
For the record...
Submitted by Alex Mazzoli on Fri, 2009-03-06 11:18.
...I am a Tar Heel, I went there.
Where did I say "flops"? I was talking about the two videos on the interned about Duke players taking 12 (or more steps), nothing more or less.
The reason why UNC will always go to the line more than Duke is pretty simple, the Blue Devils have no inside play. UNC's game begins with the ball going into Hansbrough in the paint, and so there will be more fouls called, end of story.
I don't need conspiracies, nor anything else, all I need is "the numbers". And those prove which side is the better one.
BTW, when is the last time that Duke won at home against UNC? Oh yeah, before Hansbrough came to Chapel Hill.
“If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot.” - Dean Smith
"The name on the front of your jersey is a lot more important than the name on the back." -Roy Williams
Yep. Here it comes. The
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 12:20.
Yep. Here it comes. The breakdown of why Carolina gets to the line, and the re-direct of your post now that you have been exposed as a fraud. Stick to your post man. You said Duke gets all the calls. Thats a lie, non factual. You make stats up to sound smart. Carolina averages 10 more free throws a game then its opponents. Far greater than Duke's 5. Carolina Avergaes only 15 fouls per game, that coming with what you all praise as the most physical player ever. Interesting that Duke avergaes more at close to 19.In addition Duke is #23 in the country in free throw attempts. Carolina is #2. You talk about Flops, Hansborough has been exposed just as much as Paulus as a Flopper, and then you mention travels. The fact that you even mention travels is a joke in itself, and the fact you encourage me to go to Youtube is even funnier. I go to You tube and its full of clips of Tyler taking 5 to 6 steps on a regular basis, not the two calls you seem to harp on about Duke. And if you really want to talk about the NBA we can do that as well. Duke has 15 actives, UNC has 9. Duke's active have a higher efficiency rating(This is an NBA rating not mine) than UNC's actives.
Everything you mentioned in your post was exposed as fraud. You should be arrested. You are a chump. Just another hater that was exposed for what he is. And then what do you do, try to get tough with mentioning Home games. Great play. Exposed as a fraud and then changes the subject. The reality is that I know the truth. Carolina has been the better team the last three years. I don't need to come up with lies to disprove that. You on the other hand are so insecure of the fact that Coach K has 3 and Dean has only 2 that you would actually try to Rush Limbaugh the boards here and make people believe the lies you are telling. You are a loser man, and the great thing is now you know you are and so does everybody on the board.
Last three years...
Submitted by Alex Mazzoli on Fri, 2009-03-06 15:04.
...might be a bit small. Here are the numbers:
Men's Basketball Conference Success
ACC Regular Season Championships
North Carolina - 27 (1st)
Duke - 18 (2nd)
ACC Tournament Championships
North Carolina - 17 (1st)
Duke - 16 (2nd)
Men's Basketball National Success
NCAA Final Fours
North Carolina - 17 (1st all-time)
Duke - 14 (3rd all-time)
NCAA Tournament Championships
North Carolina - 4 (4th all-time)
Duke - 3 (tied for 5th all-time)
Current Streak UNC 2
All-time Series UNC leads 129-97
As I said before, Duke got momentum between the Smith era and Roy Williams coming back to UNC. Now that he is back UNC is once again the top team of the conference.
“If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot.” - Dean Smith
"The name on the front of your jersey is a lot more important than the name on the back." -Roy Williams
Bobby Knight even did a show
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 19:50.
Bobby Knight even did a show on Hansblow's "travels"!
He goes into the lanes with elbows flying, it's a wonder no one has been hurt. BTW, as far as the Duke player traveling on You Tube (Jon Scheyer), did you notice he was getting fouled the whole time and that wasn't called, either?
Not the one I am talking about...
Submitted by Alex Mazzoli on Fri, 2009-03-06 23:13.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFDIkJKDXM&eurl=http://www.tarheelfanblog.com/&feature=player_embedded
...This is the one I was refering to.
“If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot.” - Dean Smith
"The name on the front of your jersey is a lot more important than the name on the back." -Roy Williams
Last time Duke won in Chapel Hill???
Submitted by Jason (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 12:33.
You truly are a UNC fan aren't you, with that short term memory and all. You claim to just need to 'see the numbers' yet you say Duke hasn't beaten UNC since Hanstravel arrived....care to go back to last season? When Duke beat Chapel Hill in the Whine and Cheese dome? Or wait...lets examine Hanstravels record vs Duke in the Snoz dome....1-2....So your memory fails you, as it does normally for a UNC fan. Your ignorance speaks loudly for itself. Go Duke!!!!
Actually...
Submitted by Doug (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 13:37.
I think he was referring to Hansbrough's record in Cameron (4-0 sadly). But you know what? If we can knock off Tyler on HIS senior day, we might be even. MAN that would be sweet. Go DUKE!
UNC fans do not hate Dook.
Submitted by Ford Prefect (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 09:29.
UNC fans do not hate Dook.
Instead, we look on a Dookie as a socially inept younger brother; a smartass, but a smart ass. You really can't take him anywhere. He is prone to fart during communion or pee in the reception punch bowl, but he remains kin. We hope he can eventually be socialized & civilized.
Underneath all the abusive behavior aimed at us Tar Heels, we know that Dookies actually admire us. We are better because of them and they are better because of us. Folks, it is no fun to win or lose to someone you do not admire. Like South Carolina, for instance.
Hate is a strong word
Submitted by WinkWilkinson (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 11:06.
but it is true, at least for some players. While in college, I worked for a men's clothing store where both football and basketball players for both teams shopped. We had some very fun "interactions", but the absolute best was just before the last Duke UNC game in '89. Both J.R. (can't) Reid and Alaa Abdelnaby came in to the store. Alaa was in a changing room when JR came in, so we tried to delay Alaa from coming out ... they had an incident in the mall a few weeks earlier. Needless to say, when Alaa found out what was going on, he came charging out and they had a very "interesting" conversation that resulted in us calling mall security. It was great to see so much passion when they played each other a few days later. On the flip side, Laettner and Montross were very civil to each other every time they were in the store together. Go figure. The bad-a## though, and I hate to admit it, was Tommy Amaker. I'm a die-hard Duke fan, but he was a complete turd every time he came in.
The Great Roy?
Submitted by MT Neal (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 11:37.
Yes he has put up a lot of wins, but he had a loaded team when he got there. Roy is a great recruiter, always has been but UNC recruits itself and with Roy they are able to get 95% of whoever they want. Still, Roy has only been able to win it all once with someone elses players. He doesn't seem to be able to coach defense. Players learn to score better than playing defense in high school and before. Roy improves their strengths ( scoring ) more than he can improve their weaknesses ( defense ). I love Duke but they may loose this weekend, UNC on offense is very hard to stop but I don't think UNC will win it all this year, I doubt they will win the ACC tourney. Ole Roy likes to roll the ball out and hope his team plays well, last year's tourney loss showed he isn't as good a game coach as he is a recruiter. Wonder if he knows he can't use the time outs he kept from last year in this years tourney? Not sure what he was keeping them for.
Okay...
Submitted by Alex Mazzoli on Fri, 2009-03-06 11:57.
...Since Williams has gotten there he has won the ACC regular season four out of five years. As far as coaching job, well, it was the half time adjustments that Williams did that made UNC beat Duke this year.
As far as winning it all, every year it takes talent (which UNC has) and luck to win it all. That this squad wins the ACC Tourney or not is not the most important thing for them, the `05 team didn't.
The time out thing is something that comes from Dean Smith, who will use them in the end of the game to lengthen it. Always done it, will keep doing it.
“If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot.” - Dean Smith
"The name on the front of your jersey is a lot more important than the name on the back." -Roy Williams
Again, you don't even flirt
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 12:59.
Again, you don't even flirt with the truth when you post.
2004- Duke
2005 - UNC
2006 - Duke
2007 UNC
2008 UNC
Thats 3 of the last 4. Thats not 4 of the last 5. Your posts aren't even worth reading anymore because there is no truth or credibility. You build cases on lies. Man, are you that desperate.
2009...
Submitted by Alex Mazzoli on Fri, 2009-03-06 14:45.
...if UNC wins at the Dean Dome they will win the ACC regular season outright, and if they don't then they will share the ACC RS. So, once again, 4 out of the last 5 years North Carolina will have won the ACC regular season.
“If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot.” - Dean Smith
"The name on the front of your jersey is a lot more important than the name on the back." -Roy Williams
Tie Break?
Submitted by Doug (not verified) on Fri, 2009-03-06 15:27.
If Duke wins on Sunday, who gets the #1 seed in the ACC Tournament? They will have split their regular season games, so what's the first tie-break?
Tie breakers for both teams:
Submitted by Alex Mazzoli on Fri, 2009-03-06 15:33.
Tie breaker for UNC:
• Will be the No. 1 seed with a victory over Duke
• Will be the No. 1 seed with a loss to Duke AND a Wake Forest loss.
If there is a tie between Wake Forest and Clemson for third place, North Carolina (1-1) will hold a better record against those teams than Duke (1-2).
If there is a tie between Wake Forest, Clemson and Florida State for third place, North Carolina (2-1) will hold a better record against those teams than Duke (3-2).
• Will be the No. 2 seed with a loss to Duke AND a Wake Forest win to clinch third place; Duke was 1-1 against Wake Forest, while North Carolina was 0-1.
Tie breaker for Duke:
• Will be the No. 1 seed with a win at North Carolina AND a Wake Forest win; Duke was 1-1 against Wake Forest, while North Carolina was 0-1.
• Will be the No. 2 seed with a win at North Carolina AND a Wake Forest loss (see above in North Carolina section).
• Will be the No. 2 seed with a loss at North Carolina AND a Wake Forest loss.
• Will be the No. 3 seed with a loss at North Carolina AND a Wake Forest win; the teams split two regular-season games, and Wake Forest will take the No. 2 seed by virtue of going 1-0 against North Carolina while Duke went 0-2.
“If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot.” - Dean Smith
"The name on the front of your jersey is a lot more important than the name on the back." -Roy Williams
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About Kevin McNeill
Columnist
National Commentary
Contact
kevincmcneill@gmail.com
Background
Kevin McNeill is a freelance journalist based in Phoenix, Arizona. He has been a CHN contributor since August 2005, offering his take on the latest polls, match-ups, coaching moves, and inane NCAA rulings.
Kevin is a graduate of Syracuse University.
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Sunday, 4:00 PM
Solid article, m'man, but the game's on Sunday.